36. Memorandum of Conversation1
SUBJECT
- Summary of Meeting Between Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski and Dr. Armenio Ferreira, Lisbon Representative of the MPLA
PARTICIPANTS
- Dr. Brzezinski
- Dr. Ferreira
- Jerry Funk, NSC
- Juan Valadez, Escort-Interpreter
Dr. Brzezinski welcomed Dr. Ferreira to the U.S. on his private visit and enquired as to the health of his wife who had undergone heart surgery the week previous in Cleveland. (S)
Dr. Ferreira thanked Dr. Brzezinski for his hospitality and his concern, and noted that he had learned a great deal about Dr. Brzezinski from the Polish Ambassador in Luanda. (U)
In response to Dr. Brzezinski’s question, Ferreira said candidly that President Neto was in the process of surrounding himself by men he could trust, as he had now survived two coup attempts,—the last of which was a clear effort by the Soviets to oust Neto. (S)
Dr. Brzezinski asked if he thought Neto could survive without Cuban support, and Dr. Ferreira responded affirmatively, asserting that once the South African threat to Angola is removed, the Cubans will leave, and that the Cubans are not needed to deal with UNITA, but only to defend against South African raids. (S)
Dr. Brzezinski then stated that it was our intention to have good relations with all truly independent African nations, irrespective of ideology, but not with puppet governments. He said that he was reassured by Dr. Ferreira’s remarks, and that the U.S. does respect President Neto’s attempts to create a new society under difficult conditions. (S)
He continued to say that the U.S. wants the South Africans out of Namibia, as a means of creating conditions for stability in Southern Africa as a whole. (S)
Dr. Brzezinski said that while he recognized that the Angolans viewed the Cubans’ continued presence as a response to South Africa, the Cubans’ policy rationale for being in Angola was not dependent [Page 77] upon the South African presence in Namibia, and that Cuban policy was not entirely determined in Havana. (S)
He stated that he felt there was a basis for cooperation between Angola and the U.S. in trying to avoid making Angola the object of East-West competition, and that such cooperation would lead to better relations. (S)
Dr. Ferreira then asked if that meant normalization. Dr. Brzezinski responded that normalizing a relationship was a process, and that a part of the process would be to begin to send the Cubans home as a result of any change in the Namibian situation. He noted that a Namibian settlement was important, for without it, South Africa could become more assertive and exacerbate the situation for both the U.S. and for Angola. (S)
Therefore, he concluded, the U.S. and Angola should each try to move toward taking tangible steps that would create the conditions for settlement. (S)
Dr. Ferreira responded by asserting that President Neto was independent of Moscow, (who had after all, tried to remove him), and not subservient to the Cubans. He was and remains a nationalist and an anti-fascist. He reaffirmed that Angola was willing to normalize relations with the U.S. “tomorrow.” (S)
Dr. Brzezinski then said that he appreciated and understood Angola’s position, but that he hoped Dr. Ferreira would understand our concern that Cubans should not be allowed to remain in Angola, when they were there not to defend against South Africans, but for their own and for the Soviets’ reasons. (S)
He restated that the U.S. has no doctrinal or ideological problem with Angola, but that the major concern is that Angola not be used by the Soviets and Cubans for their own purposes. (S)
Dr. Ferreira then enquired if Dr. Brzezinski understood that there were no Soviet or Cuban bases in Angola, as President Neto had refused all requests for foreign bases. (S)
Dr. Brzezinski responded that he realized this but that U.S. concern about Cuban forces in Angola and their ultimate objectives remained. (S)
Dr. Brzezinski then thanked Dr. Ferreira for coming to see him, and stated that he hoped such contacts would continue, and would serve as the basis for bringing long-range stability in Southern Africa,—and cooperation between Angola and the U.S. (S)
The meeting ended at 5:30 p.m.
Comment. In comments to Jerry Funk immediately after the meeting, Dr. Ferreira expressed “surprise” at Dr. Brzezinski’s “sympathetic understanding”, and said that he was truly delighted to hear him speak positively of the possibility of moving toward normalization. (S)
- Source: Carter Library, National Security Affairs, Staff Material, North/South, Funk, Chron File, Box 122, 8/1–13/79. Secret. The meeting took place in Brzezinski’s office and concluded at 5:30 p.m.↩