Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, Transmitted to Congress with the Annual Message of the President, December 2, 1872, Part II, Volume II

No. 48.
Sir E. Thornton to Earl Granville.¹

[Extract.]

Washington, May 13, 1872. (Received May 26.)

[From British Blue Book “North America,” No. 9, (1872,) p. 18.]

I paid a visit to Mr. Fish at the State Department on the 9th instant, when he read me a number of telegrams which had recently passed between himself and General Schenck relative to conversations which your Lordship had held with the latter on the subject of the indirect claims.

Mr. Fish appeared to think that not only did Her Majesty’s Government declare that the right to present claims for indirect damages was not granted by the Treaty, but that it further wished to compel the United States to recognize and admit that it was so. Mr. Fish added, that as his Government had always, and in the most formal manner, declared and argued the contrary, it would be a humiliation to which the United States could not submit, now to confess that the presentation of the indirect claims by the United States Government was made in spite of its knowledge that those claims were not comprised in the Treaty. I declared to Mr. Fish that I was convinced that, however satisfied I was that Her Majesty’s Government maintained its own opinion on the subject, I did not imagine that it had any wish to force the United States Government to hold or declare the same opinion.

But Mr. Fish expressed his opinion that there was now little chance of the Treaty being carried out; and he did not hesitate to ground it upon his belief that Her Majesty’s Government had no desire for its continuance. It is needless to trouble your Lordship with all the arguments which I used to combat this opinion.

I thought it expedient to send your Lordship a short telegram on the subject, and on the receipt of your satisfactory answer² on the following day showed it to Mr. Fish, who seemed much relieved by its contents, and still more gratified when I informed him that your Lordship had communicated to General Schenck a Draft Treaty Article such as Her Majesty’s Government could accept.

I had the honor to receive a copy of that article during the night of the 10th instant. Not knowing whether Mr. Fish had also received it, I wrote to him early in the morning of the 11th instant, informing him that I had received the document in question, and that if it had not reached him I should be glad to show it him. He at once came to my house, said that he had also received a copy, and upon my asking him what he thought of it, he answered that it had struck him favorably.

I did not see Mr. Fish again till yesterday afternoon, when he told me that he had submitted the Article to the President, who was likewise favorably impressed with its contents, and had decided that it should be communicated to the Senate for its consideration and advice. Mr. Fish added, that he had telegraphed to that effect to General Schenck on the afternoon of the 11th instant.

Mr. Fish stated that it would be submitted to-day to the Senate, and with it copies of the four notes which had passed between your Lordship and General Schenck on the subject of the indirect claims, and of some recent telegrams between the latter and Mr. Fish.

I told Mr. Fish that, in my opinion, the wording of the Draft Article was very clear, and, as far as I could judge, was in exact accordance with the views which he had recently expressed to me in his conversations upon the subject; I therefore ventured to entertain a hope that, if it were acceptable, it would be accepted as it stood. Mr. Fish said that he did not himself see anything that need be changed in the substance of the Draft Article, though one or two Senators were of opinion that some of the words might be changed so as to render the meaning more clear with reference to the principle which it was intended to lay down. But he thought that this might arise from the difference of interpretation which was sometimes given in the two countries to the same words.

1. The substance of this dispatch was received by telegraph on the 10th of May.
2. Lord Granville had informed General Schenck that Mr. Fish was under a complete mistake. We desire to maintain the Treaty; we do not desire to force the United States to acknowledge that the indirect claims do not by the Treaty come under the jurisdiction of the arbitration. But we decline to assent to any contrary understanding on our part.