711.417/696
Memorandum by the Under Secretary of State (Grew) of a Conversation With the Counselor of the Japanese Embassy (Sawada)
About ten days ago I telephoned to the Japanese Embassy to say that when the Ambassador should find it convenient to come to the Department I should be glad to give him a reply to the proposal of his Government that a conference be called to amend or modify the Fur Seal Convention. The Ambassador, who is ill with grippe, had hoped to be able to come to the Department today, but as his doctors had advised him to remain indoors for a few days he sent Dr. Sawada, Counselor of the Embassy, to see me. I told Dr. Sawada that we had examined with care and good will the proposal of the Japanese Government and fully realized that under Article 16 of the Convention there was full justification for requesting that such a conference be held. However, as the Ambassador himself had been good enough to appreciate, there were difficulties involved so far as the United States was concerned owing to the absence of a recognized Government in Russia and I stated that this Government could not see its way clear to sign any treaty or agreement with representatives of the Soviet Russian regime. Under these circumstances I expressed the hope that the Japanese Government, recognizing this difficulty, might find it possible to postpone for the present its proposal for the holding of such a conference. If, however, it should not be found possible to reconsider the Japanese proposal, I said that we should be glad to learn the concrete modifications of the existing treaty which the Japanese Government desired to see effected and the reasons therefor, and that we would then examine the matter with the utmost good will with a view to finding whether [Page 465] means could not be devised to meet the desires of the Japanese Government without actually modifying or amending the Convention.
I said that, speaking now informally and unofficially, the Japanese Ambassador had informed me that the basic reason for desiring a change was that the fur seals were making serious inroads on the Japanese fisheries and thereby causing damage to the industry. I said I understood that the American herd from the Pribilof Islands migrates along the Western coast of North America and does not touch Japan and that the Russian herd of Komandorski Island had in recent years materially decreased in numbers. The Japanese, or Robben herd, I understood, lives in the inland sea of Japan, and I presumed that if this herd was responsible for the inroads on the fish, steps could be taken to adjust its numbers under the terms of the Convention by land killings. However, I said that I was not fully familiar with the technical aspects of the question and merely advanced these thoughts in order, if possible, to ascertain more definitely the cause of the situation which the Japanese Government had in mind and the steps to be taken for its adjustment. Dr. Sawada said that he also was not familiar with the technical aspects of the subject.
Dr. Sawada then repeated to me the first part of our conversation and said he would bring it to the attention of the Ambassador who would cable to Tokyo and that they would then inform us of the Japanese Government’s further views. I suggested that for the present the matter be dealt with by conversations and we should therefore not answer the Japanese note for the moment. Dr. Sawada agreed.
Dr. Sawada then said that the United States seemed to be in a somewhat awkward position owing to the fact that under the terms of the treaty the treaty would terminate on December 15, 1926 if notice were given by any one of the signatories. He asked me whether I thought we could sit in at a conference and have the modified or amended treaty signed only by Japan, Russia and Great Britain. I said that I believed that no instrument should be drawn up to cover this important subject which was not to be signed by all the interested parties and under these circumstances it seemed to me that it would be preferable not to hold such a conference at present.