Moscow Embassy Files—710 Sino-Soviet Relations
Memorandum of Conversation, by the Minister Counselor in the Soviet Union (Kennan)
| Present: | W. A. Harriman, American Ambassador |
| George F. Kennan, Minister Counselor | |
| Generalissimus Stalin | |
| V. M. Molotov, People’s Commissar for Foreign Affairs | |
| Mr. Pavlov, Soviet Interpreter |
The Ambassador began the conversation by stating that the President had asked him to come to see the Generalissimus and to discuss a certain matter relating to the Yalta Agreement. The President was anxious that it should be made clear to the American public, in connection with the agreements which the Russians and Chinese were now negotiating concerning the use of ports and railroads of Manchuria, that there would be no departure either by the Russians or the Chinese from the open-door policy in that area. He pointed out that the Generalissimus had repeatedly expressed his support of the open-door policy in previous conversations and voiced the President’s hope that the Generalissimus would consent to put this in writing, to be published at the same time as the Chinese-Russian agreements.
The Generalissimus replied, “This shall be done.”
The Ambassador then handed Generalissimus Stalin the text, in Russian translation, of the proposed communication from the Soviet and Chinese Governments to the United States Government.15 The Generalissimus looked it over and said that it would be satisfactory except for the last sentence of the first paragraph. He pointed out that in the Crimea agreement there had been a reference to Russia’s preeminent position. That meant a preferential position in the administration of the port. They consider that there should be in Dairen a municipal administration headed by a Chinese-Soviet council of five members each, the chairman of which should be a Chinese, but that the manager of the port should be a Russian, who would be subordinate to the municipal administration. That was how they interpreted the term “preeminent”. It did not apply to trade. He did not think it ran counter to the open-door policy. It was only a question of the relations between Russians and Chinese in the administration of the city and port.
[Page 961]The Ambassador said that he had a message from the President on this subject. The President had every intention of supporting the Yalta agreement. As the Generalissimus was aware, the President had talked to Soong in Washington, and Hurley had talked with Generalissimo Chiang. The President felt that Soong’s proposals met the Yalta agreement and hoped that the Generalissimus would not press Soong further for concessions. The Ambassador believed that what President Roosevelt had had in mind when he spoke of Russia’s preeminent position was full protection of Russian transit traffic across Manchuria to the warm water ports. The President’s thinking had not gone beyond this.
The Generalissimus stated that they too did not go beyond that. He felt that they had been generous enough with the Chinese. Both the railroad and the port had been built by Russians with Russian funds. Nevertheless they had now agreed to its joint use and possession. In tsarist days there had been Russian railroad guards. They had now renounced this privilege, although they had strong doubts as to the ability of the Chinese to guard the railroad effectively. In the old days there had been no Chinese in the administration of the railroad. Now they were meeting the Chinese half way in this respect. But he believed the Chinese regarded the Russians as unwelcome and undesirable guests—that they wanted the Russians to be put into a position where they could not operate.
The Ambassador said that it had long been American policy to acknowledge the full sovereignty of China in her own territory and to allow China to work out her own destiny and to support herself economically. Neither President Roosevelt nor President Truman had wanted to see a step backwards in this respect. He hoped the matter would be worked out which would give the Chinese sovereignty and control.
The Generalissimus said they were in favor of this. They had no objection to Chinese sovereignty and control. After all, they were returning Manchuria to the Chinese.
The Ambassador asked why they wanted to insist on taking charge of operations in the port as long as they had guarantees about their traffic.
The Generalissimus said that someone had to be master there. The Russians had built the port. The place had to be kept in order.
The Ambassador pointed out that Soong had been prepared to give the Russians a commercial lease on docks, warehouses, etc. in the port area, but that this would not affect the administration of the port.
The Generalissimus said that he couldn’t make out exactly what Soong had suggested. Soong had talked a lot and wasted a lot of [Page 962] time making notes but they had not understood exactly what he was proposing. They had asked him to put his proposals in writing but he had not yet done so.
Mr. Molotov said that they had just received part of what Soong had promised to send.
The Generalissimus said that they had put their own proposals to Soong in writing, both in Russian and English. From Soong they had had only words.
The Ambassador replied that he was in the same position, and that he had no information on these matters except from cables he had received and what Soong had told him. The President hoped, however, that no final agreement would be concluded with Soong except in consultation with us. He recalled that at Stalin’s request President Roosevelt had agreed to take the initiative in this matter.
The Generalissimus replied that the Russians had nothing to hide.
The Ambassador said that President Truman had accepted Soong’s general proposals. If the Russians and the Chinese went beyond them, he would like to be informed.
The Generalissimus said he had no objection to President Truman’s intervening in this matter, but he felt that the President should listen to the Russians as well and not only to the Chinese.
The Ambassador recalled that the President had intervened only in pursuance to a request made by Stalin himself and had exerted his influence on Soong. He asked whether he might understand that when the Generalissimus learned the exact nature of Soong’s proposals he would let us know how they struck him. In the case of Port Arthur, the President felt it to be in our mutual defense interests of the Soviet Union and China for the Russians to have the use as a Naval base. But Dairen, he felt, should be a free port outside the military zone, with the reservation that Soviet transit traffic should be fully protected.
The Generalissimus replied that Dairen could not be outside the military zone. A different regime from Port Arthur might be established there; but the place had to be protected. The Japanese would have agents and saboteurs there; the Chinese could not cope with this problem. According to all the old treaties and maps, Dairen was part of the military zone. Yet now attempts were being made to exclude it. Why, he asked, did the Chinese regard them as fools? After all, Dairen was near Port Arthur.
The Ambassador said the Generalissimus would recall that President Roosevelt did not agree to the lease to the Russians of the port of Dairen. He thought it should be a free port and not part of the military zone.
[Page 963]The Generalissimus said nothing had been said to the effect that it should not be included in the military zone. They intended to have no Naval vessels there, no coastal defenses, etc. but they could not permit Japanese agents to wander about in the rear of their troops.
The Ambassador said that President Truman’s interpretation was what he had outlined.
The Generalissimus said the Chinese had agreed that the whole peninsula should be a military zone.
The Ambassador said he understood the Chinese were proposing that Dairen be excluded.
The Generalissimus said, “That’s what they say now.”
The Ambassador pointed out that the Russians had originally suggested that there be a joint lease for the two ports which had not been agreed to. We interpreted it differently. They might have coastal defenses around the city, in any way they and the Chinese might like. But the port could not be military.
The Generalissimus reiterated that there would be no Naval ships there but that they would need a security zone around the port. It was wrong to think they would be free from danger but they would set up a different regime there than in Port Arthur. How, he asked, could the Chinese operate the port unless there were a master? Therefore there would have to be a Russian Captain of the Port.
The Ambassador asked whether the municipality would be excluded from the military zone under their proposals.
The Generalissimus explained that there would be a district with a non-military regime, but that matters of security would be decided by the military authorities. This would not affect freedom of trade.
Mr. Molotov said that the Chinese had agreed to everything but one point: namely, who was to be the captain of the port, a Chinese or a Russian. This question was one of internal security, of police security. In the zone to be set up as a hinterland, Chinese administration would likewise control, but security would be a matter for the Russians. As regards Dairen, the question was who would be the chief of the port.
The Ambassador said the President hoped that the port would be under Chinese jurisdiction with certain areas set aside for Soviet transit traffic.
The Generalissimus said that the municipal administration would be Chinese just as it would be in the interior zone north of Port Arthur.
The Ambassador reiterated the President’s hope that the open-door policy would be observed.
The Generalissimus said that it would be, but that it was impossible that the Russians should not play a role there. This would be counter to the Crimea Agreement.
[Page 964]The Ambassador said perhaps when the Chinese had submitted written proposals it would be easier for us to come to a meeting of the minds on this matter.
The Generalissimus replied, “Perhaps it will”.
The Ambassador asked whether he might tell the President that the Generalissimus would keep the President informed of Soong’s proposals and his reactions.
The Generalissimus said he would not only keep the President informed but he would be glad to give the Ambassador full information.
The Ambassador said that he would be glad to see the proposals and would of course report them at once to the President. Perhaps meanwhile the Generalissimus would give further thought to this matter.
The Generalissimus, pointing to our proposed text, said it was all very well but that there could be no assurance of non-preferential treatment, that after all they had preeminent interests.
The Generalissimus then produced a map showing the Kwantung Peninsula, pointed out that in tsarist times there had been not only a Russian military zone embracing the whole peninsula but also beyond it a neutral zone in which neither side could station forces. He pointed out that the Russians were now renouncing the neutral zone and using a slightly smaller territory for military zone. Dairen, he insisted, should be run in cooperation between the Chinese and the Russians.
The Ambassador asked whether it would be necessary for people to have military permits to pass through the port and over the railroad. The Generalissimus said no.
The Ambassador said we had envisaged that the town and railroad would be excluded from the military zone.
The Generalissimus said that as long as there were no hostilities in the vicinity no troops would be stationed there. He said that the Russians were taking a long view of this matter. They wanted these ports for only 30 years during which time they hoped to develop their own ports on the Pacific. At the present time, the Japanese might be defeated; but he could not tell what the situation would be ten years hence. The Japanese were stubborn, tenacious people. Russia had to guard her own security. She could therefore not be excluded from the administration of Dairen.
The Ambassador asked whether, under the arrangements envisaged by the Russians, freight and passengers of all friendly countries would be able to move freely through the port.
The Generalissimus replied, “Undoubtedly”.
The Ambassador said that then the question was who should run the port.
[Page 965]The Generalissimus repeated that the Russians wanted a control organ consisting of five members, of whom the chairman would be a Chinese, but that the chief of the port, to be subordinated to the control organ, should be a Russian.
In conclusion the Generalissimus asked the Ambassador to tell the President that they were doing everything in their power to strengthen the sovereignty of China. They would consider it dishonorable to do otherwise. Furthermore they would guarantee full freedom of trade. No obstacles would be placed in its path. The principle of the open-door would rule. All this he could assure us, as far as the Russians were concerned. As for the Chinese, they did not know. That was no matter of theirs. But they would do everything in their power to see that the open-door policy was followed by their own authorities.
The Ambassador asked whether this applied to the railroad as well.
The Generalissimus replied yes, their use would also be free.