204. Telegram From Secretary of State Rusk to the Department of State0
Secto 14. Secretary accompanied by entire US official party had one hour meeting with Khrushchev in latter’s Kremlin office at 11 am August 5. Following memcon is uncleared and subject to revision:
[Here follow 3 pages of discussion of the Test Ban Treaty.]
However, Khrushchev continued, Sovs believed basic problem was German problem. So long as German problem remained unresolved, two sides would be like hedgehogs sticking their needles into each other. German problem was such as made each side wish have it resolved in its own way. He could understand very well that if US could [Page 553] resolve German problem in its own way, i.e., by liquidating social system in GDR and establishing united capitalist Germany that would be great victory for President, Congress, and those who supported capitalism. Likewise, if FRG were made part of socialist camp that would be tremendous victory for Communism. But all this was sheer fantasy, for it could not be achieved without war. He wondered therefore whether time had not come when we, mature people who knew life and had seen war, should try move things from rails of war to rails of peace, namely, record situation as it existed now and forget about Adenauer and other people opposing such course. It was not only US who had such allies, for God had not forgotten USSR either and had given it allies who did not understand its policy. He believed however all such allies would eventually realize they had been wrong and unrealistic.
Secretary said US recognized German problem was fundamental and most important to future of our two countries and of our associates. He said he was prepared discuss this matter with representatives of Soviet Government during his stay here in order to see whether some understanding possible. We on our side recognize that in view past history what happened in Germany was of great importance to USSR. Likewise, again for historical reasons, we too were interested greatly in having peace in Central Europe. US recognized this very well as it had also been involved in two world wars. Secretary then observed two sides perhaps differed in their respective interpretations as to what was happening in that area now. For our part, we believed German people were prepared put past behind them and become part of peaceful community of nations. We also believed we must not make situation such as would deprive German people of opportunity pursue this course or create danger of war. He reiterated he prepared discuss these matters while here. Referring to Khrushchev’s hedgehog simile, Secretary said he not sure who were those hedgehogs; however he had impression that during past few years relaxation had occurred in Central Europe. FRG’s increased relations with countries to East in such fields as trade, commerce, and exchange of persons had, in his view, reduced tensions.
Khrushchev interjected Secretary had mentioned “countries to East” and apparently did not wish use term “socialist”, but Sovs would teach us to use this term and, after all, time was best teacher.
Secretary continued he had been encouraged by this trend over past few years and believed possibility for peaceful settlement had now improved as compared to possibility existing two or three years ago.
Khrushchev agreed.
[Here follow comparisons of the social systems in the United States and the Soviet Union, at first between Rusk and Khrushchev and then between Senator Fulbright and Khrushchev.]
- Source: Department of State, Central Files, ORG 7 S. Confidential; Priority. Passed to the White House. Rusk was in Moscow August 3–10 to sign the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.↩