52. Telephone Conversation Between President Johnson and Secretary of State Rusk1
Rusk: [Nixon] asked about the Paris talks and in particular these stories, and I knocked him down very hard and told him that Vance and Harriman had not recommended that we stop the bombing, and I went over again what we expect from the other side to stop the bombing and how important it was to get the South Vietnamese to the conference table. He seemed to agree with all of that. He then spoke rather thoroughly about Vietnam. He said that he thought the decision to make a fight for it was the right decision; that he thought we had had a bad deal on the public support for that basic decision, which he thought was right. He thought it was very important that we come out of that situation with something we could live with even if it takes another year or two. He was really quite sober and thoughtful about the discussion of it.2 I touched on two or three other things. [Omitted here is brief description of Rusk’s discussion with Nixon on Czechoslovakia and NATO.] But on the whole he did not get into any matters of real suspicion or things of that sort. He seemed to be kind of relaxed about his relations with you and me on the kind of briefings he’s been getting.
President: That’s real comforting. That’s comforting. I was real concerned that he might be wobbling like our other friends had.
Rusk: Well, I saw no evidence of it today. Now, I Don’t know what he is going to say in his speech in the next 2 weeks. But today he could not have been more solid and wanted to be helpful on Vietnam and said he thought after the election the President-elect would want to make himself available to you so that you could do everything that you could to get this thing over with on a tolerable basis. But we had to have a tolerable basis or the whole situation in the Pacific would roll up and then we would have a terrible situation. So I think you’ll find him reasonably relaxed on it and just wanted to be informed and wanted to know that there was no trickiness around the corner in connection with these stories he has been hearing about. And we talked a little about The New York Times. I think he will agree with you on The New York Times.
[Page 146]President: You didn’t say anything about going to Honolulu?
Rusk: No, I didn’t. I thought I better not.
President: Now, have you looked at your schedule—what the worst days are for you?
Rusk: Well, now there—I would have great trouble in getting away before Thursday night. What you might consider, Mr. President, because I don’t want to pay too heavy a cost in our relations with these people—
President: Sure, sure.
Rusk: If you go out on Thursday and have your military discussions on Thursday3 and let me come out on Friday and let me be there for political discussions, that might be one way to do it.
President: All right.
Rusk: That would mean I would have to reschedule Mr. Debré of France in my schedule. But I think that would be possible, and then I could take care of all of these others and you would have a day of military discussions with Abrams and then let me join you for the political side of it.4
President: You Don’t think, then, that I’ll have any problems with these folks if, say, I leave here Wednesday night or Thursday?
Rusk: I don’t think so. I think that as soon as you announce you’re going we’ll just say this has completely changed your schedule and you’ll have to cancel other appointments.
President: We haven’t, I don’t think, firmed up that.
Rusk: I think I can explain that all right.
President: Well, then, we might conclude that you will come out Friday. You Don’t know when Clark’s coming back, do you?
Rusk: Well, let’s see. He might be getting back about that time. We can check that or Walt can check it. I think he might be getting back about that time.
President: Okay.
Rusk: All right. Thank you.
- Source: Johnson Library, Recordings and Transcripts, Recording of Telephone Conversation Between Johnson and Rusk, October 7, 1968, 10:02 a.m., Tape F6810.02, PNO 8. No classification marking. This transcript was prepared specifically for this volume in the Office of the Historian. Rusk called from New York, where he was attending the UN General Assembly. The President was in Washington. (Ibid., President’s Daily Diary)↩
- Rusk met with Nixon that morning in New York. No other record of the meeting has been found. See also Document 53.↩
- October 10.↩
- The President did not attend the proposed weekend meeting with Abrams, Bunker, and McCain in Honolulu, traveling instead to his Texas Ranch, where he stayed October 11-13. (Johnson Library, President’s Daily Diary)↩